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Di ritorno dal JUG Meeting

Non parlo di Java, ma di un javista e di una sua affermazione.

Andrew Oliver, sviluppatore di JBoss Mail Server e ospite del meeting, parlando del perchè ha deciso di sviluppare un mail server in Java ha detto di averlo fatto perchè (citazione più o meno testuale):

"Java gira su tutte le piattaforme in maniera ugualemente performante e non perchè sia il miglior framework esistente - e non lo è perchè .NET è meglio, ma è ancora giovane e non gira su altre piattaforme"

E questa cosa, detta da javista così eminente, non può far che piacere.

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posted @ giovedì 16 marzo 2006 22.46

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# re: Di ritorno dal JUG Meeting

Left by LorenzoC at 17/03/2006 10.55
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Mi sfugge un dettaglio.
Java funziona in maniera ugualmente performante (cioe' con performance scandenti) su tutti i sistemi.
.Net e' meglio, ma su un sistema solo.
Da profano direi che e' abbastanza ovvio che una cosa che deve girare ovunque parte svantaggiata per le performance rispetto ad una cosa che e' "ottimizzata" per un tale sistema, sopratutto se pensiamo che Java e' sviluppato da "terzi" mentre .Net e' sviluppato dalla stessa mamma che sviluppo il SO. O no?

# re: Di ritorno dal JUG Meeting

Left by Simone Chiaretta at 17/03/2006 12.51
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Lorenz, non è proprio vero...
il framework .NET e il CLR sono degli standard, e quindi possono essere implementati su qualunque piattaforma...
Il runtime (che è la JVM di SUN) può venir sviluppato su qualunque OS... ed infatti è quello che viene fatto con Mono...

A mio avviso Java e .NET sono la stessa cosa, fatta con la stessa filosofia...
L'unica differenza che vedo è che Sun sviluppa "ufficialemente" la JVM per tutti i vari OS, mentre MS sviluppa il runtime solo per Win, e altri lo fanno per altri ambienti

# re: Di ritorno dal JUG Meeting

Left by Andy at 23/03/2006 18.43
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Excuse my English reply. I speak a little spanish and remember next to no latin and can translate with online translation services.

As I understand the quote, I do not think it is accurate. I did not say that it Java is equally performant on all platforms. That is unmistakably false. I said that the way Java moves the memory management outside of the scope of a request is advantageous. Meaning I suffer the memory management (GC) globally rather than having to dealloc on the spot in the same thread as a request. This was not related to my .NET statements as the same is basically true for .NET.

.NET has MANY minor technical advantages over Java. The IL language and side-by-side execution to name a few. These are also mostly irrelevant for JBoss Mail Server.

A few Design goals:
* Ease of Installation
* Multi-platform
* Multi-database
* Support for mail-based-applications
* 64 bit support (a minor but important one)

While arguably .NET with friends might have had an advantage in goal 1, and is on par (mostly) for #3 -- you could argue that either way. .NET is unmistakably at a disadvantage for the other 3. MONO's performance is HORRIBLE on most platforms and does not run on as many platforms.

And when I say multi-platform I am mostly talking about:

* Linux (x86, x64, Itanium II)
* Solaris sparc (32/64bit VMs all 64 bit machines 8,9,10)
* Windows (32 bit)
* OS X (and only because I develop on it for the moment)

Secondarily I'd like to support:

* AIX
* various Mainframes

However the IBM JVM is really very bad. Frankly if you can afford to waste money on a really expensive platform that performs far worse on average than a machine that costs 1/4 or less...then you can afford the service to make sure it all works properly.

Java's advantage in mail-based applications comes mainly from J2EE and the wide number of open source frameworks and tools out there. .NET *could* have an advantage in scripting frameworks (a later target for JBMS) from a technical standpoint, but there are simply more to choose from and more mature implementations in Java.

I won't speak to the "official" and "good father" issues with Sun vs Microsoft as they have no logical conclusion. As an open source software developer, I'm more comfortable with choice and openness. Both Java and .NET have some room to grow in the latter area.

# re: Di ritorno dal JUG Meeting

Left by Andy at 23/03/2006 18.46
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(yes I realize the above is in Italian, I was explaining my shaky translation is based on Spanish and Latin and translation services...not on actually reading the Italian directly)

# re: Di ritorno dal JUG Meeting

Left by Simone at 23/03/2006 20.12
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It's great to have such a huge developer commenting on my blog...

I didn't want to start a discussion about the reason you used Java for JBoss, which are quite obvious... I just wanted to point out the fact that you said that, if it wasn't for the "openess" of the platform and the multo-platfrom support, .NET would have been a better choise... nothing more than this :-)

# re: Di ritorno dal JUG Meeting

Left by Andy at 23/03/2006 20.42
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>It's great to have such a huge developer commenting on my blog...

Hey, I lost 3lbs in Italy ;-).. Not sure how since I ate twice as much...

I've called .NET "Java 3" before. Granted, it isn't lightyears ahead of Java (maybe 2.5 would be more accurate), but certainly full of incremental improvements (minus the RegExp API which I told one of the authors frankly sucks). The IL language is better, the CLR is a bit more well thought out in MOST cases, and side-by-side execution...

Ultimately, VMs and JITs are the tech of the future. Neither the Java or .NET VM are the last word in this area. As developers we should be pushing the envelope a bit more here and demanding more -- and WE should demand control of our own code and our own destiny here.

PS. So far as Java for JBoss... Once we conquer the mail server world, my next big evil scheme is to get JBAS running on IKVM (Java JIT for .NET), write a few deployers and such and blammo: Write EJBs in C#, VB.NET or attach C# aspects to POJOs via AOP... Your first J2EE appserver running on .NET ;-) ...

# re: Di ritorno dal JUG Meeting

Left by Andy at 23/03/2006 20.42
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PS your human proofer fails every other time for me....dunno why

# re: Di ritorno dal JUG Meeting

Left by Simone at 23/03/2006 20.51
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>>It's great to have such a huge developer commenting on my blog...

>Hey, I lost 3lbs in Italy ;-).. Not sure how since I ate twice as much...

Maybe italian food is much healty than us one :-)

>Write EJBs in C#, VB.NET or attach C# aspects to POJOs via AOP ...Your first J2EE appserver running on .NET ;-)

when you start that phase drop me a line... I love to be on the technology edge :-)

>your human proofer fails every other time for me
the first time you post, it never works.. it's a timeout issue... but this is an hosted platform and I cannot fix the problem myself :-(

# The aftermath of my JBMS talk at the Milan JUG

Left by Pingback/TrackBack at 23/03/2006 20.56
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I am not planning to say much on my trip to Milan until I can get the pictures transfered which needs to be after I free some drive space...
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